Ep. 3 The End of L&D?

The Product Design for Learning Podcast

The End of L&D? Reimagining Learning and Development in a Changing Workplace

Episode Summary

In this episode of the Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur is joined by Toby Kheng to discuss the provocative topic, "The End of L&D." They explore the challenges, limitations, and future possibilities of Learning and Development (L&D) as it currently operates within organisations. Toby argues for a systemic overhaul, where L&D evolves into a more holistic "employee experience design" function, integrating insights from HR, internal communications, and beyond.

Key themes include the role of data, the value of product and service design in learning, and the imperative to break down silos for more effective and engaging employee solutions.

Guest Profile

Toby Kheng

With over 14 years in L&D, Toby is a thought leader passionate about transforming organisational learning. He co-founded Freeformers, focusing on innovative, human-centred approaches to employee experience design. Toby’s expertise spans L&D, internal communications, and organisational strategy.

Key Takeaways

What is wrong with the traditional L&D model?

L&D often functions in a silo, designing training that validates its existence rather than addressing broader organisational needs. This narrow focus leads to duplication, inefficiency, and missed opportunities to impact engagement, productivity, and profitability.

How can L&D adopt a product and service design mindset?

• Treat employment as a product, designing for the entire employee journey.
• Borrow frameworks from customer experience design, such as human-centred design and design thinking.
• Break down silos between HR, internal communications, and recruitment to create cohesive employee experiences.

What is the role of data in the future of L&D?

Toby highlights the need for consistent, meaningful data collection across departments to inform decision-making. Without integrated insights from recruitment, HR, and internal comms, L&D operates in an informational vacuum.

Why is collaboration across departments critical?

Getting stakeholders like HR, recruitment, and communications into one room can reveal overlaps, reduce duplication, and spark innovative solutions. The future of L&D lies in its ability to lead this integration.

What’s next for L&D in the next 10-20 years?

• By 2030: Incremental improvements with AI and tech adoption but largely within the current framework.
• By 2040: Transformation driven by small-to-medium businesses adopting holistic employee experience models, influencing larger corporations to follow suit.

Chapters and Time Stamps

[00:00] – Introduction: The Clickbait Title

Greg introduces the podcast and Toby, setting the stage for the discussion on the potential "end" of L&D.

[01:00] – What’s Broken in L&D?

Toby shares his critiques of traditional L&D models and the limitations of siloed functions.

[02:30] – Evolution or Revolution?

Greg and Toby debate whether the future of L&D is a gradual evolution or a complete overhaul.

[05:30] – Applying Product and Service Design to L&D

Toby explains how frameworks like human-centred design and the double diamond can transform learning initiatives.

[12:00] – The Role of Data in Employee Experience Design

How can L&D leverage data from across the business to create better solutions?

[20:00] – Breaking Down Silos: Why Collaboration Matters

Insights into building bridges between departments to improve the overall employee journey.

[35:00] – The Future of L&D: Predictions for 2030 and Beyond

What will L&D look like in 10-20 years, and who are the real "saviours" of the industry?

[1:05:00] – Final Advice for L&D Professionals

Toby’s practical advice for those looking to implement change within their organisations.

About the Podcast

The Product Design for Learning Podcast explores the intersection of learning, design, and technology. Hosted by Greg Arthur, the show features thought leaders and innovators who share actionable insights to help organisations create more impactful employee experiences.

🎙 Subscribe to never miss an episode and join the conversation on LinkedIn!