Ep 245 - Leading through failure with Kevin Cyr at Tactical Trauma 2024

The St.Emlyn’s Podcast

Recorded at Tactical Trauma 2024, in this episode of the St. Emlyn’s podcast, Iain Beardsell and Liz Crowe sit down with Kevin Cyr, commander of a SWAT-like unit in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, to discuss leadership, failure, and resilience in high-stakes environments. Kevin shares the powerful story of a tragic hostage situation that resulted in the unintended death of the hostage by the police, a failure of the highest order. Through this tragedy, Kevin highlights the importance of visible leadership, team resilience, and learning from failure in both law enforcement and healthcare settings.

Key Themes:

1. Handling Failure in High-Pressure Situations:
Kevin discusses a significant incident where a hostage was killed by his SWAT team during a rescue attempt, describing it as the “epitome of failure.” This tragic event not only made national news but left an indelible mark on the team. The podcast dives into the lessons learned from this event and how the team used it to drive growth and improvement. In healthcare, much like in policing, failure can feel devastating and highly public, but it’s also a critical aspect of development for teams and leaders.

2. Visible Leadership and Unwavering Support:
In the aftermath of a traumatic event, Kevin emphasizes the importance of leadership being present and supportive. He recounts how he and his commanding officer went to visit the officers involved in the shooting immediately after the event, providing what he calls “unwavering support.” In healthcare, leaders should adopt similar strategies, offering visible and sustained support to their teams in the immediate aftermath of difficult cases.

3. Sustained Support Over Time:
While initial support following a traumatic event is crucial, Kevin points out that it’s often after 48 hours, or even weeks later, that people start feeling isolated. Leaders must continue to check in with their teams weeks after the event, when the immediate crisis may have passed, but the emotional toll is still present. This ongoing visibility and emotional support are key to retaining staff and ensuring their well-being in both law enforcement and healthcare.

4. Debriefing to Learn, Not to Blame:
Kevin advocates for a debriefing process that focuses on learning from failure rather than assigning blame. After their tragic event, his team didn’t just move on; they dissected the event to understand what went wrong and how to prevent similar failures in the future. In healthcare, this process is equally valuable—debriefs should aim to identify learning opportunities and reinforce positive actions, not to point fingers.

5. The Role of Organizational Culture:
Kevin touches on how organizational apathy, or a lack of emotional and psychological support, can cause more damage than the actual traumatic event itself. He highlights the importance of developing a high-trust environment where team members feel safe to express vulnerability. In healthcare, fostering a culture of open communication and mutual support is essential to prevent burnout and moral injury.

6. The Value of Failure in Team Growth:
One of the most profound insights Kevin shares is the idea that failure is a necessary part of growth. Three years after their tragic hostage situation, his team was called to a similar event, but this time they were successful in rescuing both hostages. Kevin attributes this success directly to the lessons learned from their earlier failure, emphasizing that failure, when handled correctly, can lead to transformational change.

7. Selection and Resilience in High-Performance Teams:
Kevin discusses the importance of selecting team members with high emotional intelligence and the humility to ask for help when needed. He explains how his team differentiates between rank and role, giving autonomy to those with the most subject matter expertise, regardless of their rank. In healthcare, this is a critical point—leaders must recognize that true leadership isn’t just about authority, but about empowering others to take charge when appropriate.

8. Managing Expectations and Mental Health:
The episode also delves into how individuals in high-stakes roles, whether in policing or healthcare, cope with the psychological aftermath of traumatic events. Kevin explains how his team has shifted from the belief that emotional support is unnecessary to recognizing the value of helping team members process their experiences in a healthy way. This parallels the increasing focus in healthcare on preventing burnout and ensuring emotional well-being through proactive support.

Key Takeaways:

- Failure is Inevitable: In high-stakes environments like policing and healthcare, failure will happen. What matters is how teams respond to failure—learning from it, growing stronger, and preventing future mistakes. Leadership Requires Visibility: Leaders must be present, especially in the aftermath of failure. Showing unwavering support and maintaining visibility over time is crucial for maintaining team morale and trust.

- Debriefing to Learn: After a failure, it’s essential to have structured debriefs that focus on learning and improving, rather than blaming. This helps teams identify areas of improvement and ensures they grow stronger from difficult experiences.

- Long-Term Support is Critical: Immediate support after a traumatic event is important, but equally important is sustaining that support over time, checking in with team members weeks or even months later to ensure their well-being.

- Resilience through Humility: Teams should be built on trust and humility, where members can ask for help when needed and offer help to others. Selecting individuals with high emotional intelligence is key to creating a resilient team.

- Failure Leads to Growth: When handled correctly, failure can drive transformational change within teams. It allows for the development of new skills and ensures that teams are better prepared for future challenges.

Quotes:

- “Failure is a necessary part of growth. It’s not just something to get over, it’s something you get better from.”
- “Visible leadership and unwavering support are critical in the immediate aftermath of failure. Your team needs to know you’re there with them.”
- “Debriefing to learn, not to blame, is essential. We must focus on what went well, what went wrong, and how to improve next time.”
- “In high-pressure environments, we can’t control every variable, but we can control how we respond to them and how we prepare for the future.”