Orna Guralnik joins host John Totten in our season finale. When John discovered Orna’s show, Couples Therapy, it was a breath of fresh air as depictions of psychotherapy in media go. However, Orna’s presence as a protagonist who is not the main character raises all sorts of questions about disclosure and authority; the line between anonymity and tr…

Avgi Saketopoulou’s work challenges our notions about trauma and much more. Her concept of traumatophilia asks us to consider not what we do about our trauma but what we do with our trauma. These theories are profoundly disruptive to our therapeutic sensibilities- the value we place on safety and the import of language. Favoring Freud’s earlier, fr…

Donna Orange is a foundational figure in the world of intersubjective psychoanalysis. A philosopher-practitioner who carved out her niche as the radical ethicist of the field, she discovered the work of Emmanuel Levinas to provide an alternative to mutuality. His description of the hierarchy of intersubjective space, in which the Other is always pr…

Lynne Jacobs joins us for our first ever live episode. In 2023, the International Forum for Psychoanalytic Education hosted John in Pasadena to interview Lynne for the conference theme, “…but is it psychoanalytic?” As a therapist with loyalties both in psychoanalysis and gestalt therapy, Lynne has much to say about the use of presence and emotional…

Steven Kuchuck was taught by classical psychoanalysis that his subjectivity was an artifact to bury. However, through his interest in social responsibility he found a relational revolution, and a promising way for therapists to stay more alive in the room. As a dedicated guardian of the contemporary perspective, he speaks with John about the import…

Nancy McWilliams is a renowned psychologist with many foundational books to her name. Her work has been particularly groundbreaking to psychoanalytic psychotherapists in reshaping how practitioners all over the world think about diagnosis and personality. In an extensive conversation, she discusses the beginnings of her career, how her personal tra…

Mick Cooper is a British existentialist who is most interested in how humanistic psychology can play a role in social change. As a leader in pluralistic psychotherapy, he is wary of the monoliths we espouse even down to the most basic concepts that the relationship is curative. In this week’s episode, he discusses how research has made him more ope…

For Kj Swanson, an upbringing in Christian purity culture did not metabolize as trauma. It wasn’t until her queer awakening that she realized just how much it aligned with her identity. As an academic working in theology, Kj has always been interested in the heart of matters. This week, she discusses with John the various ways this commitment to me…

For our first guest in years, John speaks with his friend Caleb Williams, a fellow psychotherapist in Seattle. Over dinner, they discuss Caleb’s affinity to the British psychoanalyst Neville Symington, their thoughts on narcissism and the neediness of masculinity. Less of an interview and more a study in the relationship of friend/colleague, John a…

In the premiere of season five, our host John Totten checks in with co-producer Mason Neely as they reflect on the last season of Between Us, the hiatus that followed, and the boundaries of the therapeutic purview. In a meandering conversation, John and Mason look inward at their own creative and family lives and forward to the upcoming season, a c…

In the finale of our fourth season, John discusses therapeutic stance with Dr. Anton Hart who views openness as a key component of healing in the treatment room, especially in regard to societal trauma. Dr. Hart makes the case that foreknowledge is in opposition to curiosity and that curiosity is necessary to introduce new prospects to the therapeu…

Carlos Padrón personifies the concept of psychoanalysis as applied philosophy. As a Venezuelan living in New York, he has witnessed both the horrors of the pandemic and the projections of the immigrant experience. Both phenomena challenge our American fantasies of purity and pit us face to face with that which unsettles us as the uncanny takes form…

Dr. Jonathan Shedler is dissatisfied. As both a researcher and a practitioner, he is frustrated with the misinformation that permeates the counseling field, much of it promulgated by an academia with little clinical experience. His contrarian voice is best known for his deconstruction of so-called “evidence-based therapy,” its research methods, and…

As we investigate the role of the therapist-as-citizen, John pauses to interview his own therapist, Lane Gerber, about their relationship and what it means to be useful- useful to our patients, useful to academia, and useful to our interpersonal worlds. Lane describes his experience growing up in a community of Jewish immigrants, what it was like t…

This week we continue our conversation with Dr. Medria Connolly and Dr. Bryan Nichols on the psychological case for reparations. From white privilege and its deconstruction to the fantasy of American democracy, Dr. Connolly and Dr. Nichols shed light on some of our more provocative cultural issues, making it clear that we are not living in one Amer…

Dr. Bryan Nichols and Dr. Medria Connolly had collaborated for several decades when their discovery of Ta-Nehisi Coates shifted the course of their work to making the psychological case for reparations to the descendants of African-American slaves. As psychologists of color, they were intimately aware of the ghosts that haunt our society, even with…

It’s impossible to watch the news without witnessing the horrors sustained by people of color in America. The psychological traumas take a physical toll as well. Never has that been more clear than the covid-19 pandemic which has lowered African-American lifespan more than any other group of people. Ashley McGirt is a therapist and educator who wor…

Between Us returns with Dr. Usha Tummala-Narra, an author and professor of counseling at Boston College. Dr. Tummala-Narra is our first guest in a series of interviews that ask the question, “Does psychotherapy address what is happening in the news?” Psychoanalysis has not always welcomed issues of culture and diversity. She believes there are theo…

This is a repost of our fifth episode featuring filmmaker Lynn Shelton who passed away May 16th, 2020. Originally posted in January of 2017. ---------There is no better week to discuss the brokenness of humanity. Lynn Shelton is a filmmaker whose films such as Touchy Feely and Your Sister's Sister capture her unique vision of regular people and the…

We are back from a long break for a one-off episode in which our hosts, John and Mason, discuss therapy in the time of coronavirus- how it changes the practice, how it changes the collective conscious, and how it brings into focus not the modality or technique, but the relationship.Por Between Us

Dr. Karen Maroda is an integral voice in contemporary relational psychoanalysis who has literally written the book on psychodynamic techniques. In the finale of our third season, she spoke with John Totten on a wide variety of topics ranging from current misconceptions of enactment, to when the therapist should withhold his expressions of love, and…

Mason takes the wheel this week as he explores with his wife, Dr. Katie Neely, what it was like for her to experience his emergence into a career in psychotherapy. In a vulnerable and intimate moment between husband and wife, the Neelys process the ups, downs, and crazy-making moments of this emotional journey and how their disciplines of psychothe…

What is it like to grow up the child of a therapist? Megan Griffiths is a filmmaker whose dark characters and tragic situations are undoubtedly influenced by her mother’s work as a social worker. Her latest film, Sadie, is a modern critique of the American culture of violence as it effects a young girl whose father is away at war. It is streaming n…

In the last few years our culture has shined a light on men behaving badly. But what do we do with perpetrators of sexual and intimate partner violence? Bethany Hendrickson is a therapist who provides treatment to both survivors and perpetrators of this epidemic. In this conversation, she discusses with John the cycle of violence, the similarities …

What are the different ways that psychotherapists hide from their patients? It has long been our assertion that many of us enter this work to stay behind the analytical lens and to guard ourselves from exposure. But what about those who don’t have the option? Rachel Newcombe is a psychoanalyst and writer who works on rural Orcas Island in the furth…

On today's episode, John sits down with his friend and colleague Katie Wilson to discuss her relationships with other therapists, how she uses her anger in session, and her discovery of her own limits as a woman in the field.Support: www.patreon.com/betweenusContact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.comFacebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/Twitter: twi…

Whitney Erickson is a young therapist who is constantly emerging into further layers of herself: from coming out as queer, to leaving the Mormon Church, to a recent epiphany about her own eating disorder- while working with clients who suffer from eating disorders. She takes the discoveries in stride with a sense of wonder about herself, her client…

Dr. Adrienne Harris is a foundational figure in the world of contemporary psychoanalysis, both as a faculty member at the NYU Postdoctoral Program in Psychotherapy and Psychoanalysis and as a prolific writer on the topics of gender, trauma and subjectivity. Several years ago she formed a consultation group with her colleagues Dr. Susan Klebanoff an…

What are the everyday tragedies you experience? From the universal affliction of aging to the specific harm of racism and sexism, our culture is talented at ignoring the daily trauma of human existence, and normalizing the grievous. In our episode today, John sits down with Dr. Karen Weisbard to discuss her process of waking up to these realities a…

Between Us finally returns. In our Season Three debut, host John Totten discusses his long absence, his ambivalence about his colleagues, and the social graces of the therapist community. Do you like hanging out with therapists? We listen to your responses. Find "Between Us: A Psychotherapy Podcast: Original Soundtrack" on iTunes today. Support: ht…

Dr. Galit Atlas joins us for the finale of Season Two. Her new book, The Enigma of Desire: Sex, Longing, and Belonging in Psychoanalysis, is a comprehensive study of sexuality and desire through her unique dual lenses of pragmatism and enigma. A renowned psychoanalyst, professor, and contributor to the New York Times, Dr. Atlas spoke with our host,…

One of two episodes about sex, our episode today is a reactionary one. Reactionary against the dogma that John and his guest, Leanna Ramsey, respectively grew up struggling against. What does it mean to be sex-positive? Our premise today is that a stance of curiosity is the only way to therapeutically address differing sexualities, and yet the fiel…

Writer Ijeoma Oluo is angry and that’s okay. She wants white men to be okay with their anger too, as long as they understand where their anger actually comes from. She is a powerful essayist and cultural critic who is not afraid to be vulnerable in public about things that anger her, things that terrify her, and even her own mental health. In this …

This week we continue our discussions with Steve, Jeff, and Nick- three men in three stages of life, all managing three different manifestations of bipolar disorder. They sit down with John to talk about the path to living happy, fulfilling lives full of gratitude and how they keep themselves healthy. Season Two of Between Us is sponsored by MetaFi…

Three men at three stages in life. Three different manifestations of bipolar disorder. Often consisting of manic episodes, delusions of grandeur, and days without sleeping, bipolar disorder is a widely misunderstood illness that sci-fi legend Carrie Fisher spent much of her days demythologizing. In the first episode of our two-part interview, three…

Poet Molly Peacock had a relationship with her psychoanalyst for forty years, even after her analyst had a career-ending stroke in 2012. Molly’s new collection, titled The Analyst, is inspired by the relationship she describes as “Oliver Sacksian” in reference to the renowned neurologist who, himself, was a patient for five decades. Is psychotherap…

It is one of our premises for this show that the work of healing in a relational context is countercultural. On this episode, Roy Barsness, a professor and psychologist, sits down with John Totten to discuss his new book, Core Competencies of Relational Psychoanalysis. In the qualitative study that formed the foundation for his work, Roy found a pa…

Does music have a real effect on our emotional health? Do the songs that speak to us actually speak to us? Jason Dodson is the singer and songwriter for the band The Maldives. Their new album, Mad Lives, was written as a therapeutic process in response to a fracture in Jason’s life. In this discussion, he tells us about that process and his own men…

Psychoanalysis has not been a field that is particularly progressive in its deconstruction of prescriptive gender roles. The feminist presence that exists today had to be forged. Our guest, Sally Bjorklund, is an alumni of that feminist movement. She has a keen sense of her own outsiderness, from her childhood as an adopted tomboy in the evangelica…

For our premiere of Season Two, we attempt to get topical. What happens next in healthcare? Is our mental health coverage in jeopardy? Professor Aaron Katz teaches health policy at the University of Washington. He has a knack for explaining complex policy in layman terms. Aaron sat down with our host, John Totten, to discuss the Affordable Care Act…

For the finale of our first season, we are joined by renowned psychoanalyst and philosopher, Dr. Robert Stolorow. Dr. Stolorow’s writing on intersubjectivity and emotional trauma has shaped the field of psychotherapy for forty years. In this conversation, our host John Totten and Dr. Stolorow discuss a wide range of topics- from his own experience …

Jonathan Merker took part in so-called "gay conversion" ministries as a young college student. In this episode, we continue our three episode arc on culture and trauma as we discuss his journey out of a harmful religious culture and into his own career as a therapist, much in part due to the help of his own subversive counselor.Contact: betweenuspo…

To close our first season, we begin a three episode series on cultural trauma. Jennifer Henderson is a therapist who has worked in the trenches of traumatized communities, all while having her own family history of suffering due to racism and police violence. In this episode, we discuss the ubiquity of systemic racism, transgenerational trauma, and…

Dr. Heide Island is a researcher and professor of psychology at Pacific University. Her research on neurochemicals and their relationship to temperament has been used by dating services to understand attachment and companionship. In this episode, she discusses the anticipatory effect of dopamine, the neuroscience of attachment, and how change happe…

No interview today. Just pure, unadulterated processing. John and Mason discuss their reactions to the election, through tears and laughter, and we hear contributions from people who might feel it the most.Por Between Us

There is no better week to discuss the brokenness of humanity. Lynn Shelton is a filmmaker whose films such as Touchy Feely and Your Sister's Sister capture her unique vision of regular people and the ubiquity of psychological pain. She also directs television shows such as Fresh Off the Boat, Casual, and Master of None. She sat down with John foll…

For our spookiest episode yet, John sits down with Brian Koch. Brian is an actor and a musician. Most notably, he is the drummer in the Portland band Blitzen Trapper. But he is also a devoted archivist of his own unconscious life through the recording of his dreams. We discuss his experience of dreams and his time in Jungian analysis.…

After checking in with our co-producer Mason Neely, John sits down with Tony Fulgham, a filmmaker and musician, who has an unconventional yet profound relationship with his therapist.Por Between Us

Doug Hansen is a psychotherapist, clinical supervisor, and professor. In this episode, Doug and John discuss the origins of a psychotherapist: the forces that shape the mind of a therapist and how Doug has been shaped by his own grief and experience as a patient.Por Between Us

Ro Reyes is a psychotherapist and an immigrant. On our inaugural episode, Ro and our host, John Totten, discuss alienation, psychological life, language, and Star Wars.Por Between Us